#11 Henry BJJ Mixtapes

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Welcome back to the podcast. Today I am sitting down with one of my jiu jitsu brothers from Triune. Thank you luck for having me today. I'm glad you're here. Henry is not only a dedicated competitor and a coach, but he's also an incredible father and a passionate storyteller through videography. His journey is one of resilience, self-discovery and transformation growing up as a Chinese American in Portland, finding discipline through fitness and martial arts, and embracing his identity through his experience in Taiwan and academia. In this episode, we deep dive into his early struggles, his path to Brazilian jiu jitsu, the lessons he's learned from competition and fatherhood and how he creatively blends his love for martial arts with filmmaking. There's so much wisdom in Henry's story and I can't wait for you all to hear it. Let's get into it, Henry. Awesome. Cool. Henry, let's start at the beginning. Let's jump into your early life. What it was like growing up in Portland as a Chinese American? Well, for me, I was born in 1988, and so I grew up in Portland in the nineties. It's really not like how it is today. Now, it's like, a bunch of coffee shops, a lot of hipsters, a lot of people moving in, a lot of implants. But back then it was really just more of a small, quiet, industrial city. And, we had lots of people of color communities, we had lots of people from China, Hispanics, Blacks, and it was just a really cool and diverse place. Even though it was pretty small, certainly it was really White dominated. As a minority in Portland, you're used to that. You're used to being, one of the smaller groups there and you just stay tight knit with your community. And that's what we did. My mom and my dad met in Portland. But for them, it was really about having second chances in life. They had already been married, they got divorced. They each had kids in their previous marriages. So I was one of the children amongst many siblings. Because we consider ourselves brothers, even though they're half brothers, we're really tight. And so growing up in that community with my family, we're just always really close and we stuck close to each other. And, for me it was a challenge because, my father and my mother, they had some challenges, early on in their relationship. And so when I was a toddler, they weren't really sure where they wanted to be. Cause my father was from Seattle. My mom's from Portland. Mm-hmm. And so they had some conflicts and, my mom wanted to stay in Portland. My dad wanted to go back to Seattle, and so they just decided that, they're going to separate and not really have that relationship anymore. As a child, when your dad disappears, it's really hard to make sense of it. Absolutely. And for me it didn't make sense at the time. I just knew that I don't have a dad. I have my brothers, I have my mom. She worked really hard to, take care of the family and really provide for us. Every year she would make sure that there's like really fat Christmases, really good Thanksgivings, just to make sure that, we were taken care of. But, the reality is that she had to sacrifice a lot to put things on the table. So for her, her mother was a really great source of strength for her. Mm-hmm. And a great source of support. And so I remember as a kid, I'd go to grandma's house all the time and I would stay there even on weekdays so my mom could work. My grandmother was just a, such a great person. I learned a lot from my grandmother in terms of just, what it means to be a good person. And, she was a really passionate gardener and, in her back garden, she had Asian pear trees, she had a really. Really tall, golden peach tree. And man, the compost just smelled horrible every time you walked back there. And I remember going that kid back there, it's man, it smells so bad, but the fruits that were produced from those trees. We're just so delicious. They're plump. they were extremely delicious and sweet and I could just see that my grandmother on my mother's side had this connection to the earth and she, really went into that labor. Early on in my life, I saw my grandmother just jumping into the labor. And you know, the fact that hard work, does pay off. And that's something that's really instilled in me at a very young age, just seeing my grandmother work in that garden. And producing these, this amazing fruit for us. How old were you then, when you were around your grandmother? And you were watching her in the garden? Yeah. I was, four years old, five years old, six years old. At the time I was the youngest, grandson, so she spoiled me to death. I was always my grandmother's favorite for a very long time. Until my other cousin showed up, I was like, man, these kids showed up. Took my spot. Of course you're gonna be, of course you're gonna have some, some resentment for the younger cousins, but I love them. Yeah. But you know, my elementary school was actually just, maybe, a kilometer or so away from, my grandmother's house. So we, we would do those walks every morning in the back alley, not even a kilometer, just really a short, five, 10 minute walk. Right. So my grandmother would walk me to school every day. I just, I cherish those memories, just being able to walk there in the rain. Cause Portland, it's a really rainy city. I just cherish those times just being able to be with her and, her putting her love into me. Right. Okay. So let's talk about your mom. Yeah. My mom, she's just one of the most amazing people. Extremely loving. I feel like, with especially second generation immigrants, they have the language skills to succeed. They have the, resources, but that mentality of, being inside the family and then on the outside of the family, protecting yourself, in society is something that was really prevalent in my mother's experience. Mm-hmm. So, you know, for her, she was really caught in between just, being an American, but being Chinese slash Hong Kong nese. I think that's something that, for her was always a source of, struggle. Just to be able to find that place, in the United States, in her life to be able to hold her head up high and to be able to work and take care of her kids, but find herself. Unfortunately, I think for a lot of, people like my mom, it was hard to find yourself and find that place. After she graduated from high school, basically, she got into these relationships, and had children. And really early on, because of, some challenges with relationships, she had to work really hard to take care of her kids. She had, two kids before me, my oldest brother, Leo, and my second oldest brother Will. We have quite a years apart between us. So my oldest brother, Leo, he's 10 years older than me. And my brother Williams five years older than me, so there's already an age gap. And so my mom, having to care for all of us, having to feed us, I think that's just a real challenge. So she jumped between various different jobs, working at restaurants, fast food joints, really just to provide because, she didn't have the skillset to, to find other jobs. Right. In addition to that. The dads are out of the picture. And so there's not a lot of support there. I would characterize my mother's experience as one of struggle and a one of determination, but at the sacrifice of her own health. She sounds amazing. Your mom. You moved frequently and struggled academically. As a child, how did those experiences shape your resilience? Yeah, it was a really challenging time, I think from the ages of six and seven, because around seven years old. My mother decides that she's going to move closer to my aunt in Beaverton, but that also meant uprooting me from the security I had living at my grandmother's home, going to the elementary school that I loved. We moved that fall to Beaverton. I went to one school and, I felt like at that time I was. Maybe one of the only Asian kids there, and I kind of felt shunned. I felt like an outsider. I remember one time in the second grade classroom at that specific elementary school, they were talking about maps of the United States. And a lot of the students, they're like, oh yeah, I've, me and my family have traveled down to this place. And for me, I had no idea what even a map was. And I didn't even know that outside of, where I lived, that there were these other states. Or even other countries. My world was so small and I attribute that to just the kind of upbringing we had as Chinese Americans. For me being a 2.5 generation Chinese American, the first generation being my grandparents generation, the second being my mom and me being 2.5, the fact that the world is really small for our community, my grandmother only knows the world of her small community, the people who speak her Chinese dialect, which is already really small, right? And then my mom, the people who speak Cantonese in her community. And so we really didn't have much contact with people outside that community. That was a real challenge for me to try and find my place in a school speaking English, but at home, speaking a completely different language. Mm-hmm. With English, kind of, you know, thrown in there once in a while. Then I transferred to a different elementary school when I was in Beaverton, and that was already really challenging because. I was already behind. I wasn't really good at math. They were talking about planets and like the universe, and I was completely lost. And so it was just a really tough time. And to make matter is worse because my mother had gotten into a relationship with this man that she met. She, we ended up moving later on, because that didn't work out. And so we then moved to Gresham, which is, pretty far east of Portland. And I transferred to another school. In the spring, which, was great because I, there's a great teacher there who, saw that I really loved reading and was really supportive and, you just get lucky sometimes. So what was that teacher that, helped you out? What was that teacher's name? Her name was Ms. Zander. I remember her, pretty well. She went out of her way to give me, additional worksheets and also, more handouts just to, work on my math. As a teacher now, when I look back and see what that teacher did for me, they were really trying to differentiate the idea of differentiation. It means that depending on the student's needs, you make adjustments to the curriculum or you make adjustments to the assignments that you give them. She wasn't really the main teacher that really had an impact on my life. I would say that, because I had some challenges in reading and in math. It was really more in fourth and fifth grade where teachers started to notice some challenges I had and also. Some things I was really passionate about. From very early on, I really loved reading. And so in fourth grade and fifth grade, I had teachers who would, always call on me to read when I raised my hand.'cause I was so excited about it. Yeah. And so it was really cool to have teachers identify my strengths because when you're a young kid, you don't really have that ability to identify, Hey, what am I good at? What am I bad at? And so to have them come out and say. Hey, Henry. read some more. Go check out these books. That's very empowering for me as a child who was really cut off and isolated and also really introverted to have teachers push me to do something that I loved and that I was actually really good at. That's great. In what way did books and video games provide comfort during difficult times? I really learned about video games when I was probably around three or four years old. Because my brothers were into them. I love my brothers. I looked up to them so much. Because we didn't really have a male role model in the home. My brothers were the next best thing, right? I would watch them play the NES and we'd always fight for the controllers and stuff, and I would lose those battles. They would let me play once in a while. So I had a lot of fun just, being able to play the video games and just, get lost in a whole different world. Especially when the world that I lived in didn't make sense at the time. Right. I feel like I identify as someone who problem solves and because video games have different challenges and different things you have to do, back then they were more simple. But I really enjoyed the puzzle. I really enjoyed the challenge. I think that's something that is characteristic of just who I am and really powered, me to face challenges just moving forward. I also had a doting mother and a doting grandmother who, if I want a new video game, maybe they push back a little bit, but eventually say, okay, we'll buy you a new one. And I would sit there just for hours. Then with, reading. What was really impactful with reading I think really was started in third and fourth grade. We started reading novels like the big friendly giant bar Roll doll. About different classics. And then we'd have these open reading sessions and, that really just allowed me to go into different worlds. To use my imagination and to be creative, just by imagining, these different places, different worlds. So that was something that, I really enjoyed and I found solace in those things, especially because I lived in a household that didn't really encourage you to go out and play with other kids or interact to other kids. My grandmother especially, was very cautious about the outside world. Inside the home, it's safe. Outside in the real world, it's dangerous. Stay away from it. I wasn't even allowed to go and visit, my neighbors, my friends who went to the same school, who lived right next to us. Why was the outside world considered dangerous? I think that, nowadays we have a term for parents, what we call helicopter parents. Yeah. Or snowplowing parents. I think is just because they. There they had immigrated to the United States and with a language barrier, there are challenges in communicating and what they understand about, the United States and the danger. That's something that's a mentality that really never changed. Also really think too, it's related to just traditional Chinese thinking. Where, on the inside, internally, that's a family. It's, it is close knit. That's the most important unit. And on the outside outsiders are. Not to always be trusted, and you have to be careful with them because you never know, when they might turn on you. Okay. And that was just the old school mentality certainly is very different now. But when you're just arriving in the United States and you lived here for a while and you're just with your close-knit community, it becomes very difficult to integrate and to be part of the larger society. And a part of that is that fear that something might happen that you might get tricked, that people are, shorting the change on you. And not being completely honest. Okay. That makes sense. How would you describe your relationship with your parents growing up? It was a good relationship. I really loved being around my mom. I always wanted to be around here as much as possible because she was away during work and it was generally very positive. And I would also say in terms of like discipline and how they communicate, it's just very old school. There's a lot of yelling in my family, but because it was a bigger family and I had lots of uncles and aunts, you really had to be loud to communicate. Your message and to be heard. With my mom, it was a very, nurturing and loving relationship. Like I said, she always did her best to care for us. And we talked about the Thanksgivings and the Christmases, which really didn't go into, but basically every Thanksgiving, the family would get together and they'd always prepare the Turkey, and then some, the mashed potatoes, all the different traditional items. It was those times where we always felt close to each other because we'd be breaking bread and eating and connecting, playing lots of video games with my brothers and my cousins. So it was just always a really fun time. My mother was always the center of that. She wanted to make those meals. She wanted to show her love and connect with us through food. How did your siblings influence your personal growth? Yeah, so like I mentioned before, because all three of us basically grew up without our dads, we really only had each other. When my mom decided to move, we all moved and we had to make those transitions. We all had to make those transitions no matter how difficult they were when I was around seven years old. My brother William was in middle school. My brother Leo was in high school. And unfortunately for them, they got, involved in the wrong crowd back then, the AZN social culture was just on the boom. People of Asian identities, from Cambodian to Laos, to Vietnamese to Chinese, we're all getting together and, having a sense of unity. But with that union, with that solidarity. It didn't necessarily mean that positive things were happening. And they got involved with crews that were doing things like carjacking, stealing credit card fraud, just really bad stuff. But, my brothers, they love me so much that they never wanted me to be part of that life or to introduce me to what they were doing. Right. And so they always try to be, good role models in front of me. And even my oldest brother, Leo, even in high school he wanted to show his love and, he loved his little brother and he wanted to take care of me. So I remember writing him a Santas Christmas list. I said, here are the things I want for Christmas. And he would go outta his way to get these things from me. Wow. And even more, not just those things. And it was like that every year. For them to go outta their way to make sure, in terms of material goods that I was taken care of, it's something that I'll never forget. And something that, influenced me in terms of how do you treat people? How do you show that you care? And, other things too is, despite them being uncontrollable and, outrunning the streets mm-hmm. They were always respectful to my mom and always just having the utmost respect for her, never yelling back or fighting back. I have nothing but good things to say about my brothers. I'm obviously as siblings, you fight. Sometimes you have, certain conflicts, the love is always there. They took care of you very well. Even at their detriment. In regards to doing things that weren't right, just to take care of you, to make sure you were okay. Yeah. At what age did you reconnect with your father? So in terms of my earliest memories of my dad, I remember him being there. We had moved into a house for a brief amount of time, but like I said, because my father and my mother didn't see eye to eye about where they wanted to be in the relationship, where they wanted the family to be, my, my dad basically left and so he could pursue his job so he could continue running his restaurant in Yakima, Washington. My mom, she's very headstrong and she's very family centered. So for her, there's no way in hell that she's gonna leave. Her mom, her brothers, her sister. To be with this guy and my dad had to respect that. One thing I wanna say too about me and my father is that, I've thought about this, and I've said this to him too. I respect your decision as a man. You need to be your own, right? You need go do your own thing and exercise your autonomy. But then, I always had some reservations about. His decisions as a father. And there's a distinction between being a man and a father. Absolutely. How do you exercise your masculinity and implement it at the same time? How do you sometimes put that aside so you can be the best dad you can be? So there are a lot of question marks as a kid in terms of him being a dad and being a father. He would do his best. He would send letters, he would make phone calls. And when you're five, six years old and this person's not there, present in front of you. It's hard to have those conversations. You don't feel as inclined to say, Hey dad, how are you? Mm-hmm. And so it was just very awkward to me, even though my dad was trying to connect all those years to really connect with him and to have conversations with him because he just. The guy wasn't here, right? Yeah. I lived basically, through, elementary school, middle school, not knowing my dad. I did decide to reconnect with him in high school. A really monumental experience I had at the end of seventh grade. I started running with the wrong crowd. And these were kids who were like, into tagging and graffiti and vandalism and, during off school hours. We basically, let's just put it this way. We were doing things at the school, after school hours, and we did get caught eventually. We spent a little bit of time in juvie. Then we went and did volunteer work to reflect on our actions. Those crimes did get expunged. So because we were just misled and doing things wrong, we're supposed to. But the funny thing is that the day that stuff happened was on Father's Day. And I remember the officers talking to me was like, I should be at home with my kids, spending time with them. I'm here dealing with your sssshhh. I'm not gonna say that on this podcast. No, you can, you can curse all you want. But that officer was livid. I realized at the end of the community service and the reflection that, this is not who I want to be. In retrospect, my brothers did so much work trying to make sure I didn't end up this way. It would've been a disrespected dishonor to them had I ended up, running the streets and doing things I shouldn't be. And so I went back in eighth grade, I decided, I wanna turn things around. I apologized to the principal, to the teachers for, the trouble that we caused. In middle school I was always kinda like the class clowns. Oh, Henry, stuff like that. Yeah. I was really serious about, turning my life around because by eighth grade I was super behind in math. I wasn't a really good reader. There were a couple times in elementary and middle school where the teachers were considering, holding me back a year. So, you know, contrary to this idea that, the model minority myth that, people from China and, from East Asian countries are like, really good at studying and so on. I was the opposite of that. I was super bad at math. I didn't really feel like I had any aptitudes in terms of being a good student. But I wanted to turn it around. I think having that desire and that determination to change, really reshaped things for me. It's just really prolific change. How did your experience in juvenile detention shape your future choices? Yeah, it was a very interesting time and I was never usually the type of kid to get into trouble. I don't have a big rap sheet or anything, but it was a very short-lived experience. I do remember being in that area and doing some pushups because I was like, oh man, this is tough. I need to do something to pass by my time. So I was like doing something I thought I saw in the movie, but it was very short. And then basically after that we had some community service and that experience was pretty boring. It was just like going to the parks and weeding a bunch of blackberry bushes and doing that every weekend, and I knew I didn't wanna be doing that. Also, I met some kids there who would take my lunch, even though I put my name on it and that they weren't very friendly. And so I think it shaped me in terms of help me understand what type of person I want to be and to be lawful. Yeah. I was a very pivotal moment that helped me decide I wanna be a different person. Yeah. That makes sense. Okay. Let's go into some of your fitness journeys. What was your relationship with sports and fitness in your early years? I wasn't very athletic when I was in elementary school. I did really love basketball. I think that was an influence of my brothers because they loved basketball, they loved Michael Jordan. They were around during the golden era of basketball. And so I remember in second grade, because it was so difficult for me, I think they had noticed, and on my birthday, they had bought a really cool Michael Jordan gift for me. They weren't home to deliver it because they're out, probably out having fun or doing something with their friends. But I walk into our dingy apartment. And it was a really cringe apartment. Like you would find cockroaches in the cereal and stuff. It was just bad. But, there were things that were positive about those experiences, and one of them was finding this gift on the ground. It was a Michael Jordan bag. You could see a picture of Michael Jordan going up for a dunk. They had some balloons attached to it. It was just a really cool gift. Whatever my brothers were into I want to be into as well. And one of them those things was basketball. I really loved playing basketball in elementary school and then middle school and seventh grade, I was like, okay, I want to go and try out for the basketball team. And I go to the practice, we do some suicides, which is running back and forth to courts. A bunch of times. I'm left-handed, but right-hand at the same time, ambidextrous. It wasn't really clear which hand I wanted to use. Later on in life, I'd realized I shoot left-handed, but my layups were bad. I could really do a jumper. I didn't really have athleticism. I was also a little bit overweight as a middle school student and I was like kind of coming off, but not quite yet. And I remember running past the coaches and I heard them say, yeah, he's cut. And just being really open about who's being cut. I was just so upset and I was so demoralized that I told myself, I don't wanna come back to this practice. I don't wanna play basketball anymore. So I would characterize my experience, my connection to fitness early on as not very positive. And I didn't really see myself as an athlete. Any other sports that you were involved in besides basketball? In middle school, no, but in high school, around 11th grade, I wanted to do a sport. My cousins encouraged me to do a sport because they thought it would look good on college applications. So I was like, all right, I'll try something. And my cousin told me I should try swimming. I signed up for the swim team. It's a really small team, not very popular, so you're automatically just bumped up into varsity. But I wasn't really athletic. I didn't have a lot of muscle. My endurance wasn't great. But I did have a really awesome coach, and she walked me through, what is freestyle? What is the backstroke? I could never really do the butterfly. Mm-hmm. I could do breaststroke, but not very great. But she put me in a couple different events. The first one was the, 50 freestyle, and then the other one was the 100 yard, freestyle. I worked on my freestyle. I could only breathe on one side. And it wasn't very great. I would lose a lot of these different meets. But by the end of the swim season, I did start to, catch some speed and catch some steam. I would beat some of the other kids who were swimming. It was a great experience. It did help me develop some confidence. I did not see myself as a competitor. I would get really nervous before the meets. and then after I finish my events, I would have the butterflies in my stomachs for like, the rest of the day. Oh, wow. Yeah. So the nerves were just always, it was just really intense for me. I was always nervous and this is not something that I felt like I would address until I start my journey in jiu jitsu later on. Okay. Another question I had for you. How did your uncle's passing shift your perspective on health and fitness, and how old were you then? Yeah, when my uncle passed, I was in my twenties and I was living in Taiwan at the time, and during that time I would make sure to exercise regularly, maybe go on a run, maybe do some pushups and so on. But I never really took it seriously because I was so involved with my life as a student. And when he passed, it was really sad for everyone. It was very sudden he had a heart attack. Was in a coma maybe for a week or so. Before passing, while in the coma. And so it was a real shock to me. I remember when that happened. Certainly I was upset, but I was also recollecting the last conversation I had with my uncle, which is very positive because we had fights. He dealt with the life of addiction, which is not easy for any of us. I remember him coming to my mom's house asking for money, and we had an incident where he came and was knocking on the windows, really hard, being aggressive. And despite him being my uncle, I had to call the police on him. I think in terms of, Chinese families, you never want to put, your family member in trouble with the law. But I was trying to protect my mom. But it was a very negative experience for him. But we had patched that up before he passed away. So I was very happy to have a positive conversation with him. He encouraged me to continue studying, but then, a few months later, he died because of, health issues. Just that constant accumulation of damage to the body because of the addiction that he fought all those years. And so I decided at that moment that I needed to prioritize my health and that it's the only thing that I have. And by then I fell in love with basketball again. I had met a really awesome crew, at the National University who loved to play basketball from 3:00 to 7:00 PM. I would go almost every day just so I could ball with them. Nice. It was just pick up games, a lot of fun, a lot of good connections. But in addition to that, I also picked up running again. Running was never really hard for me. I think because of my build, I'm a lanky guy, I can run and I love running. So I started off with five Ks. I would make some prs in my five Ks, and then I would start doing 10 Ks get some prs. And I was like, okay, this is not challenging for me. I was looking through, news outlets and I realized that at the city I lived in, at the time, they had a annual marathon. I was like. I'm gonna sign up for the half marathon'cause I'm just starting. Oh. Couldn't register for it because all the other persons that thought the same thing decided that they're gonna register for the half marathon. I was like, I'm just gonna go for it. Full marathon. I told my brother, he's like, bro, you signed up for a full marathon, you're gonna shit your pants. I was like, nah, that's not true. Three months out before the full marathon, I started training for it. So I started tapering up, going to do 15 ks, 20 Ks, 25 Ks, 30 Ks. The most I ran before the marathon was a 35K'cause I didn't wanna top out And I remember, how challenging it was. And it's funny because, after you finish running for about two hours. Your body starts developing these salt crystals. They do. I've never, I never experienced that before. They're like, whoa, I guess my body is using a different source of energy.'Cause I had exhausted whatever I had. Right. So it was also a very, interesting experience to understand how my body works because I never pushed it that far before. I would also try to model as much as possible when the event would happen. We think that Koffer Krew is really, oh man, I have to wake up at seven to get to the Koffee Krew at seven 30. No, that's not that bad. I woke up at like 3:30 AM go to the seven 11 in Taiwan. I'd eat a really high carb breakfast, right? I start running at four and I wouldn't finish my run until 7, 8, 9 am. Yeah. So Koffee Krew folks, that's not early, man. That's really hard. Yeah, no, not trying dis Koffee Krew. I love Koffee Krew. I finish up the training, I start tapering down and, I'm running, but then I notice that my T band. Starts getting really tight. I'm like, oh shoot. I'm like, two weeks out I would feel injured. I was super worried and it was, I think one of the first times where I was preparing for an event where I felt like I may have been injured. I did some research. I talked to other runners too to see how they deal with this and, I start stretching a lot more and by the time I get to the event, I'm ready to go. Awesome. That's good. So how did pushing your physical limits translate to other areas of your life? Yeah, I can, go back to just the event itself. I think that marathon was a real defining moment in terms of where I wanted to be physically, mentally, and how it transfers to aspects of my life. Because it wasn't easy at all. Once you jump into that run, you're running with a giant crowd of people. It's like nothing you've ever experienced. That's just something so unique in itself. We had ran all the way out into the boonies into the areas of Taiwan where all you could see is rice patties. But it was cool because along the tracks they would set up different stations. They would have a ice water station with sponges, so you can clean yourself up. You could have some snacks, but around 30 5K, like I was feeling it, I started cramping up. I was like, I'm not sure if I can continue. But, I did end up finishing, around five hours and 30 minutes, which is, just below that six hour limit. So it wasn't great, but a finish is a finish and that's what we wanted. Right. You know, moments like that I think were really important for me because it just taught me that, with anything in life, whether it's fitness or academic goals or just being a better person, that if you set up a plan, you should definitely make steps for it so that you can, achieve your goals. If you're putting your mind to something, you can definitely achieve it, but you wanna make sure that it's consistent. And I think also the determination because with anything that is typical, that's hard. You're going to want to quit, you're gonna wanna stop. But in those moments when your mind is telling you to give up, you need to keep going. So Henry, We were talking earlier in regards to you being the first in your family to graduate high school, correct? Yeah, that's right. Tell me a little bit about that experience and have you talk about what inspired you to move to Taiwan. Sure. At such a young age. I think it's very brave and bold of you to do something like that. And just How you made those decisions? Yeah. Basically high school was a whole nother game for me when I entered into ninth grade. In middle school, you could skate by just, doing the tasks and the different assignments, taking your tests and, no one really say anything. But in high school, it was a very special high school because you had to apply to get in. And I had learned about this high school while I was still an eighth grader from my friends, Cameron and his brothers, they're a Cambodian family that also come from immigrant parents. They taught me a little bit about, what it takes to get into a good high school. Cameron, his older brother had applied to, this high school and got in and he was always raving about how awesome it was. And I think that was a motivator for me to try something different. And so I applied to. Benson Polytechnic High School, and that's where I spent four years in high school. It was just really different because it was more of a selective school, and that meant that the pool of applicants were also quite excellent. It didn't matter if you're Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese, black, Hispanic, everyone wanted to put their A game in. Everyone wanted to be excellent. They want to go to places like Stanford, Harvard, Yale. And if not there, then they wanted to go to some of the best tech schools in the country. It was the first time I was with a cohort where everyone was trying to be excellent. I couldn't really do the athletic piece, but I knew I could put my mind to being a really good student. And so at that time, I had really good mentors in English classes that, led me in the right direction. I had a good college counselor. The high school graduation wasn't a very big deal to me, but for, my parents and for my brothers, and my aunts and uncles, it was a big deal. I was basically the first in my family to graduate from high school. I'll be honest, I failed chemistry, but I did have to retake it. It wasn't a smooth process. Okay. This is just me on my own doing the best I could. Having some good support from teachers. And so I go to Oregon State University for the first year. Getting to know students for for the engineering program. And they're like, yeah, you have to take a bunch of math. You've done pre-calc. But you know, students who come in usually have already finished calculus and so on. You might be here for, five years, six years because you're math. You're behind in math, right? And so just the same theme as before when I was in grade school. I was behind in math and, it was very discouraging for me. But I did have passions in writing. Like I would work super hard on my English essays. I really loved, speaking, in front of class. I was getting into music at the time, and I really loved just anything that had to do with the humanities. And so I decide right then and there that, Forget this. It's not the path for me. I don't know how passionate I'm gonna be as a computer engineer, but I really love reading. I really love interpreting literature. And so I became an English major. I also decided to be a writing minor and a music minor. So I could really engage in those creative activities. And so I was there for a year at Oregon State. I decided I'm gonna go back to Portland State University so that I could be closer to my family and be part of the music scene. When I was at Portland State University, I was getting really into music. I also had to take a foreign language class, and I had already taken Spanish in high school and it wasn't very interesting to me. No dis to people who speak Spanish. It just, at the time, I didn't feel like it was right for me. Right. I had been whitewashed for so many years. Like I didn't want speak Cantonese. I didn't want to hear it. I didn't want to reconnect with my culture that for some reason at that time, I don't know why. I was like, Chinese doesn't sound too bad. I'll try it. It was really damn hard. We talked about the fitness was difficult, but this was like intellectual, challenge. I was just kind of skating by on the grades in, that class, but something about it really attracted me, like the repetition, the muscle memory. You need to write those characters. That could be five strokes, 10 strokes, 15 strokes, 20 strokes. And being able to know that and be able to recall it and write it. Something about that repetition I think resonated with me in terms of my sensibilities as someone who likes movement, right? So I continued to work hard in Chinese. It was a very technical and strategic language, and so I wanted to keep pursuing it. And after about a year I could have a basic conversation with someone. I could do some basic reading. But it was nowhere near, a high level proficiency. At the end of the, academic year, our professor, Dr. Jonathan Peace, who would become my advisor, he taught a lesson on tong poetry. Tong poetry is like the best era of poetry in Chinese history. And just the way the poet had described, the river running through this ancient city and how, two friends have to separate possibly for the rest of their lives because the emperor wanted to, exile this person for dissing him. That really resonated with me. Just this idea of, how someone can express so much and how we as modern readers can understand so much. Through, four lines of poetry. And I decided right then and there, dude, there's something here. Something really amazing. And I decided then and there, okay, forget English, I'm gonna be a Chinese major now. I decided my second year of Chinese that I wanted to go to graduate school because I just really loved, the academic part of it, understanding the literature, the history, writing about it. I also visited Shanghai for the first time, and that was a really interesting experience just to open my eyes up to the world. Understand it. I never left the country before, so in 2009 I spent time in Shanghai studying advanced Chinese. Then my senior year of, college, I got into a McNair's, scholars program. This is a program designed for first generation students who aspire to pursue a PhD. It's really good program to do some research to travel and research in China, which is why I did, and I produced, my first research article at the time. I really wanted to get into graduate school and I wasn't quite there yet. I even had gone to academic conferences, getting to know people, presenting my ideas, and I applied to a lot of graduate schools in the United States. But, I got rejected to all of them. And that was the first time where, in terms of my intellectual life. I got rejected and it was very difficult for me. Luckily my advisor was there to step in and say, Hey, even though you have this obstacle, it's an opportunity for you to do different things. For you to pursue a different path. I think this is a theme that would run throughout the course of my life, starting from that moment that when you have an obstacle, it I can actually take you somewhere, even better. Absolutely. And, based on his recommendation, and, his wisdom, I decided I'm gonna go to Taiwan. And the plan was to teach English to get into a master's program there, and to just really experience the Taiwanese style of life. That sounds nice. So tell me about Taiwan, your experience there. Yeah, so before I went to Taiwan, I was actually, quite involved with a Buddhist temple near my mom's house. This is probably gonna be a bit of tangent, but my mother had a very complex relationship with religion throughout her whole life. I think she was seeking some sort of spiritual sustenance and, she tried to have a positive impact on us as well. So when I was a toddler, yes, I went to Jehovah's Witnesses. These sermons we also went to a Baptist church and I did get baptized, as a Christian when I was a very young. But, my mother, I think for her too, she decided to go back to her roots. And we eventually returned to Buddhism, which is, my religion now. And so at that temple there is a master who, whose brother was a Buddhist master at another temple in Tainan. Taiwan, where I would go. And so they arranged for me to stay at this temple and that would be my initial experience in Taiwan. My Chinese was good enough at the time that when I arrived I could greet them and, also participate in some of the sermons in the morning eat vegetarian. So even though I wasn't part of the Buddhist order officially, I did, enjoy and also experience, some of the Buddhist lifestyles models at that temple. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah, I visited a Buddhist temple at one time in my life and it was really, calming. I really loved it. Yeah. You know, for me it gives me, an energy and a way to move through my life and move through the world with a certain type of grace because, in Buddhism, the idea is that everything is impermanent and that in life, despite having different joys and different experiences that suffering does color much of our experience as humans. And so it's to understand these truths and to find some sort of grace or some sort of understanding and, appreciation for the suffering that we go through mm-hmm. So that we can move through life better. And just move through with grace and better enjoyment. It was really great for me to experience in Taiwan. And I think that just that experience would. Allow me to understand suffering as a reality. Understand that, our bodies, our experiences, they don't last forever, but there's something in that we can embrace so that we can have more fuller experiences moving forward. Right. How did immersing yourself in Taiwan culture shape your sense of identity? I think the first impression I had of Taiwan was really more focused on how people interacted with me as a foreigner, as someone with a connection to the heritage, because everyone was really friendly and they would always offer their help. I remember just going into the taxi for the first time too, and just how welcome I felt by the taxi driver. You know, very professional asking, where I'm from or where I'm headed. And then also the members of the Temple were all just very helpful and always willing to help me with anything. And so I think for me, how it would define that experience in Taiwan is its people, they're very friendly, very enthusiastic, it's not like in the United States. People here certainly we're friendly, we care about each other, but it's really focused on cultivating the individual. The individualism is really important, whereas when I was in Taiwan, we're all a part of the collective. We're all in the journey together, and we offer help. Always, there was no exception. People just want to help each other. When I was in graduate school in Taiwan, I went to National Chung University in the Chinese literature department. Every professor I met there, certainly they wanted to pursue their research, but they saw themselves as really serious teachers always trying to help. Even if they had a class of 20, 30 students, they would sit down and give me so much good feedback on how to improve my writing, how to improve my Chinese, what direction I can take my research. So I'm just so grateful that, I had these amazing teachers. It's just generally really positive. People show you their warmth and there's nothing duplicitous about it. Wow. Makes me Wanna visit there. What were some of the toughest and most rewarding moments in graduate school? In Taiwan? Difficult for me, it was mostly just the time I had to put into the work because Chinese was still a foreign language to me. I basically had to learn it from zero. I had to spend much more time reading the materials and interpreting it and finding how it can be useful in my research papers. And so it was a real grind. That's a real theme I think in my language studies, is that you just put the time into it. But because I had never written academic papers before in Chinese, I would just borrow a lot of the phrases and the structures wholesale and really immerse myself in the way people in Taiwan communicate if they're in the academic field. That was a challenge just trying to figure out how all the pieces fit. And so I believe the language aspect was a real challenge. And even sometimes, understand the cultural norms or how you're supposed to interact with people in the target culture. That sort of thing took time. I think playing basketball with my friends on the basketball court, who we are, blue collar workers, they're breakfast stand owners, they're engineers, they're professors also really helped, right? I would say that the challenges was really just languish in the culture. Okay. What drew you to pursuing a PhD in Chinese literature? In college, I decided that I wanted to become a professor of Chinese, and I knew that the pathway was to get a PhD. Another professor in the Chinese department during college told me that, it can be a real gamble because the academic job market is up and down and not all PhDs are guaranteed to get like a strong tenure track academic job. A tenure track academic job means that when you enter, you're an assistant professor and based on your publications. How you teach your evaluation, you can get tenure, which means that basically you have the job forever. Mm-hmm. So it really is a, pathway in a more traditional way to have job security if you're an academic. And that's what I wanted to pursue. So after I graduated from my master's degree in Taiwan. I, took the GREI applied to about 15 different schools, which included application essays, test scores, and various different components. And I had gone into, three schools, Columbia University, which they only offered me the master's program because, their program was, so big and they can only offer PhDs to, a few students. And then I also got into University of Wisconsin Madison, which is great, but they didn't really offer a good scholarship package. Mm-hmm. And I had to be a teaching assistant for a really long time. And then I got into University of California Irvine, which was a really awesome choice for me because they identified me as like a diverse student because, being first generation and so on, they offered a very strong scholarship package and, I also wanted to be on the West Coast so I could be closer to my family. During that time my mother had also developed some, mental health issues and so I wanted to be close by so I could still connect with my family and do my best to take care of my mom, even if it's from a distance, right? I decided I wanted to go to University Irvine, and that's where I met Dr. Martin Huang. How did he shape your academic discipline Yeah. Dr. Martin Huang is, he's just a very traditional academic, one of the best rhetoricians I've ever met. And, his journey was also very interesting that I should talk about here is that for him, he was also an immigrant, he had gone through a language school, went to Washington University, St. Louis to get his PhD, and then, eventually become a professor at UC, Irvine, very intellectual, it's very challenging for him because his way of giving feedback is I'm gonna tell you where you screwed up. And you absolutely have to follow it. So you can improve. Looking back, I had wished that, in my mid twenties, I had known how to receive feedback better because at that time I really didn't feel like I could take constructive feedback the way I do now. Mm-hmm. But I feel like through, Dr. Martin Huang, the way he coached me, the way he was so patient with me really helped me, understand that, when someone gives you feedback, they are trying to help you no matter how it's delivered. There were times where he did break me down because it was a necessary process. In academia, whether it's in the sciences or the humanities, it can be really cutthroat. People could, tear a research paper apart because they think you make really bogus arguments and you could be discredited. Things like that. Or if you have a debate at a conference, if you don't present yourself in a certain way. You are vulnerable to certain attacks in terms of debate and how you argue and what you're trying to prove. Wow. So, Dr. Hong was always looking out for me and I appreciate it so much. And the intellectual sparring sessions were hard as hell. Some of the hardest things I've ever had to do. I did have a moment where I was really vulnerable in this office.'cause I was like, I don't know if I can do this. I had this kinda imposter syndrome despite evidence that, I was an excellent student. I always had this feeling that I wasn't good enough. And that is something that really shaped how I saw myself as a PhD student. And then the next day, I remember after that debate, he emailed me is like, Hey, you're gonna be okay. You're gonna do well in the PhD program. I didn't believe it at the time. But yeah, I did do well. And it was challenging, but I ended up publishing two research articles in some peer reviewed journals. I completed my dissertation. I graduated successfully and I couldn't have done it without, Dr. Martin Huang. I think the theme, throughout our talk has been how important it's to have good mentors. And I think each and every one of the mentors in my life, whether in grade school, middle school, high school, college, PhD, they taught me what it means to. Have servant leadership, how to serve people, and that is just a running theme in the way I carry myself with others and, a lesson that I'll have for a lifetime. Very nice. Okay, How did your PhD journey teach you? Patience and perseverance. The PhD journey is long and it can run from, after the MA. From five years to eight years, I knew people who just kept staying in their PhD because they couldn't find jobs. And so it really taught me how important it is to. Even if you get rejection or even if you don't get the result, you want to just keep going because every failure is a lesson, for you to learn how to improve and how you can get better. There were times when I didn't get the scholarships that I applied for or, my papers got rejected from these really prestigious journals. But the feedback I received just taught me how I can become better. There were just lessons for me. So I would say that as a PhD student, it was about the failure. Like I would love to write a resume with a list of failures because those are the things that counted. It's the things that aren't on paper that really shaped who I was and who I am as a scholar. Very cool. I could see, how Jiu jitsu would play in your life, because of the fact that there's a lot of trial and error in jiu jitsu. And going through your college experience, your fitness, everything you've had to work hard for Um, So let's dive into your jiu jitsu journey and your warrior path, as you call it. What first sparked your interest in Brazilian jiu jitsu? It really starts with Bruce Lee because growing up my brothers and I would watch all the Bruce Lee movies with our uncles who are also really into them, and so one of our favorite movies is Enter the Dragon. What other movie is there, that's such a classic, right? He goes to this island, he has to fight off all these different guys. He's trying to avenge the death of his sister. He finds out that, oh, I don't wanna spoil it, but he finds out there's some, crazy thing going on with drugs and stuff has to take down everyone on this island. It's just amazing. And of course the sportsmanship and the Martial expression of that movie is so amazing as well. But that's where it really started. I think for being a Chinese American in Portland, small knit community, my friends, my brothers, we just love the martial arts culture. The reality is that many of us were not able to really involve ourself in that culture because mom had to pay the bills. Right. Or Right. There's some other expense or you're paying off medical bills. Mm-hmm. We didn't get to experience martial arts firsthand, but we always lived it through the movies or lived it through the media. In terms of Brazilian jiu jitsu, it really starts with camping with some of my ride or die friends from Oregon. Uh, they include my friend Lawrence, Zinn, Henry, and also Warren. I want to talk a little bit about, these guys because, they're just essential in just my journey, from, being a martial artist up to now. My friend Henry, he is also Asian American like myself. After high school, he decided that he was gonna join the Marines. From 2006, 2010, he served in the Iraqi War and he served in a really important campaign called The Strike of the Sword. They, I believe had, one of the largest helicopter drop-ins, in the history of the United States military. He ended up, fighting in these wars. He got the rank of corporal, he did get out of the, military. He's a Brazilian, jiu jitsu, purple belt now. Just the way that he carried himself as a warrior, really inspired me to want to do something like that as well. Just to, be on the warrior path. The second person who's really important, in my journey is, Lawrence. He started getting into Muay Thai around 2015. All of us were camping in Oregon during that time, and he's Hey, come learn some striking. I was like, what is this thing? We stepped by some trees. He was like, yeah, just try to strike this bush a little bit, strike these leaves. And he so taught me like a one, two. And then he also taught me how to slip. And that was really my intro into martial arts in general. Right? Eventually when I got back to, the university for the PhD, I would go and take a traditional jiu jitsu class. So we did some very basic things. We learned basic striking. We also did a big hip throw. The ogoshi. We also learned, osotugari. Some basic sweeps off the ground, so I was just really, fundamentals essentially. Right? I remember sparring for the first time, in that class, we put out the heavier front of the gloves and I like tense up. My shoulders would be super tight. I was trying to hit this dude and not even breathing. It's truly funny looking back, right? That's just how it started. And after that class, I took krav maga.'cause I really wanted to get into the self defense component. I didn't poke anybody's eyes out, but, I did learn some really strong, kicks to the groin. We practice striking defensive movement, how to, have be in a stance where you're as thin as possible, so you're less of a target when you're moving around. Right. But, I don't know how much I enjoyed it. I do remember the coach saying, how important self-defense is. And I think it really resonated with me that, especially for women who are in the arts, you wanna fight to the death. You want to be very tough because, for him he was like. You don't want to be dragged by some guy into this basement and be stuck there for several years. Just die in the street or escape. Now that's really extreme, but that somehow really resonated with me, that man, people need to protect themselves. Mm-hmm. Like there are a lot of crazy people out there. I think self-defense was the reason I started jiu jitsu. The funny thing is, I even didn't even wanna do jiu jitsu. I was like, what is this thing? My friend Lawrence, I went back for one of the breaks and he buys me this gi. It's this really old school worn out combat corner gi. I still have it today. And it was, I guess he bought off Craigslist. He is like, yeah. Try this out, man. You know, there's some ground game. I was like, no, I like striking, man. I don't wanna do this. I just wanna punch people and maybe kick them. I get this gi and then I, go back and look at the, the website for our rec center at UCI and I see a Brazilian jiu jitsu class, and it's taught by this dude named Alex A. I would eventually learn that this is Alex Aboutalebi, who is now a Brazilian jiu jitsu black belt, I think third degree, from the, Clever jiu jitsu line. Oh, nice. Yeah, so I took his, class my first class I took with him at the UCI rec, Center. Man, I just, it was just so awkward. I tie my belt, like I didn't know how to tie it. I just kind of do a regular knot and we bow in. He's like, okay, I jog around. Let's do these warmups. And then I, he is, okay, let's do our shrimp moves. And then he like shows me and I was like the last person to get off the mat.'cause it was so awkward. I was like, where were I put my feet? I didn't know where to put my hips. It just felt so awkward. I didn't even know why we're doing this movement. And I was like, the last people to finish the warmup. It's just super awkward. Yeah. Even while doing the drills like we were doing the knee cut pass, I had no idea why have to put my knee into this dude's tailbone. It just felt awkward, you know? Like, I don't even know this dude, and why is his legs around me? What is this thing? I had no idea why we were doing these things, right? Like, yeah, it didn't make any sense to me. But yeah, we did eventually get to spar. First I spar with this really big dude, and I was like, breathing really hard. The adrenaline started pumping. I tried to get my arm out from an arm bar. He eventually did submit me, but I was like, man, I gotta survive, in my head. Yeah. I remember thinking like, I gotta survive and feeling just really excited, but scared at the same time. Yeah. And then, I also, roll with this guy Andrew, who ends up being one of my best friends. He's a brown belt now. He gets on top. Eventually I try to escape. He takes my back and we have this running joke now that, next time I see you, I'm gonna take your back. He does still take my back these days, but it's harder now. Yeah, I bet. I think after sparring I was like, okay, this is cool. This is something I never experienced. I wanna keep doing this thing. Yeah. Yeah. And that was the beginning of my journey. Okay. Awesome. What were your biggest challenges when you started training? Yeah. the training piece. Certainly the, one of the most challenging things for me was learning the techniques, because at that time I was also learning boxing and boxing. Yeah, there's techniques, you just refine your strikes, you refine your ducks, your slips, and there's a very clear set of things you can do. Whereas jiu jitsu, there's so many different things to learn, so many things to master different combinations, different connections, that learning the techniques was very challenging. Another thing that was challenging for me was the physical aspect, because I had reached a level of athleticism for jiu jitsu, but what I had achieved was not necessarily for jiu jitsu.'Cause I was still a basketball player. Mm-hmm. I would lift weights, How can I do well in five minutes and survive and maybe get a good position. That's not something that, the previous training I had prepared me for, I also had some physical limitations at the time I wasn't very aware of because I'd actually hurt my shoulder from rock climbing, maybe a year before I started Jiu Jitsu. I didn't know at the time, with my understanding now, it's probably a labral tear. And then there was a time too, and I did some river tracing'cause I loved the outdoors. Where I jumped, from 30 feet off a cliff into some water, right? And I did hear something go, I didn't diagnose anything. I think I had some issues with my shoulder, through jiu jitsu. That was also really challenging. And what that taught me is that, our bodies are constantly changing and as much as we try and maintain it sometimes injuries do happen. And that was a real challenge as a white belt, wanting to do the things, wanting to train hard, but then being concerned about injury. Okay. So how has jiu jitsu influenced your mindset, both on and off the mat? I think it's influenced my mindset tremendously. Before I started Jiu Jitsu, I think I would wanna just give up pretty easily. I would have like, maybe more escapist behavior. I would sometimes wanna run away from my problems. But what jiu jitsu has taught me is that, if you have a problem, you have to start solving it. And that goes back to just me when I was a kid, loving that problem solving, loving those puzzles. Jiu jitsu for me, is something that's, it's physical, but it's also extremely mental. And it's taught me a lot about, perseverance and resilience. When things get tough, you have to, move forward and power through it. Be patient about how you approach it. And so for me, I try to take that off the mat too, in the way I interact with people, and just to really, see the thing for what it is. Just see a thing for what it is, and then problem solve it. Okay. Yeah. What are the biggest life lessons jiu jitsu has taught you? Any life lessons? Yeah. One of them is that, sometimes problems aren't as big as we think they are. You could feel bad about something, in one day, the next day you still have opportunities to repair or fix those situations. I don't know how many times I've walked, onto the mat and, yeah, I've had some good days, but then I have some really tough days where I feel like just nothing's working. But then, down the road a week later I get into those same situations and, something's working. I get my sweep or I get to the position I want. For me, I just let the work do itself. I think, one of the biggest lessons, I don't know why just recently, is how much intuition plays, into what we do on the mat and in life. It's not so much, intellectualizing something like I would do when I was into the academia. As much as, seeing something for what it is and then finding an approach. We struggle a lot, whether it's in our social relationships, whether it's at work, just in society in general. It's very complex. But, in life I want to try to read something more pure, find my authentic self as much as possible. And I think that's possible. Being on the mats. So the biggest lesson for me is how to find my authentic self and how to help others find their authentic selves on the mat. When you're rolling with somebody, that's a whole different type of dialogue, than it is if you're just having a conversation. Each person is trying to have their Martial expression, they're trying to craft it, trying to express it in a way that's unique, and the way they carry themselves on the mat. Hopefully they can take that out in the world. Something I try to do. I never want to be the most aggressive person on the mat. I want to understand what it is I'm in, in that specific sparring session. Whether I have to push or I have to pull, whether I have to wait, and I want to have an unmoving mind. That means that I'm not worried about what my next thing is. I'm not worried about, whether this guy's gonna, submit me and stuff like that. I just wanna be in the moment so I can see the mind of the person in front of me. For who he or she is. And then I decide, okay, I'm gonna move. I'm going to, this is my next thing I'm gonna do. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Let's talk about the four schools that introduced you to Brazilian Jiujitsu. I know you traveled too many places. Can you talk to us about those? Yeah, of course. So after I got my PhD, I was moving around a lot, but that also meant that I had to go to a lot of different jiu jitsu schools. The first gym that I went to was called the Valhalla Jiujitsu in Irvine, California. And that was basically the school you would go to if you went to any of the UCI Recreation BJJ classes. And I had a coach there, AJ Albert, super cool guy. He would always play lots of cool tracks when we rolled. And he was also a Clever, BJJ black belt and, just learned a lot from him. He was always very casual about the way he conducted his classes and, you can tell that he cared about his students and cared about their progress, and it was really where I refined a lot of my fundamentals. I trained there with my friend Andrew, who was my best friend in jiu jitsu, and we also had a judo black belt that would visit us in that class named Judo Nick. He's a kodokan black belt and he would also teach us take downs. So that is where I learned one of my favorite moves is sumi gaeshi, which is the sacrifice throw. So really thankful that part of my journey. I had to move to Utah for work, and so I found a gym called Paul Toms Academy of Jiu jitsu, and he is a Flavio Berhing, black belt. Flavio Behring is one of the red belts from Helio Gracie, so it was really amazing to be part of that lineage. And at that school it's more traditional jiu jitsu. They're very focused on self-defense and everyone there had just super good top game. Everyone's just like tough as nails. And I feel like at that school that's where I really refined how to have good pressure. A lot of fun roles. I also competed again during that time. didn't get any wins, it was a learning experience for sure. Okay. And then your third place. Yeah, my, my third gym was Elite Team Monterey. And I have a really interesting story for that one because it happened around Covid. So in August I moved to Monterey for work and I had looked up all the different gyms and I found Elite Team Monterey. I message, Mark Gutierrez. And I was like, Hey, are you guys open for class? Really love to train again. He's like, my bad bro, we're not ready yet, because of Covid, catch us later. He was at that time making videos and instructional for his students, because they weren't opening, during Covid. What was actually happening at the time was that, there was a specific group that would train. And just because I had just gotten there, it wasn't be able to be part of that. But later on, he messaged like, Hey, Henry. Are you ready to train like we're opening up again? And, of course I was ready'cause I'd been six or seven months of just, training around with my dummy. I'd also met a couple military guys when we were training in their garage. So I wasn't really getting much jiu jitsu. So I go to Elite team Monterey. I was really impressed by the space. They had a nice mat space, but in the back there was like a cool lounge area with a couch. They had some gym equipment. And then, what was really great was that you could always shower after you're done, to get ready for work. I learned a lot from Mark. My first time was hard as hell. It was just so difficult. People were really tough. They saw my blue belt and they're like, dude, we gotta get this guy. But, that's the type of fire I wanted. I wanted a place where I can challenge myself. Mark's instruction was just so amazing. Very patient, very cerebral, very articulate, and just very well-rounded. Every time you go into Mark's class, whether you go into the zombie crew at oh 600 or you go to the evening class, he has something for you. Whether it's take downs, passes, escapes, submissions, anything from the guard, closed guard, open guard variations. That was the time where, I was enjoying the buffet, learning many different things as a blue belt, I was also refining my top game. One thing I learned from Mark that I'll never forget is, how you combine the X pass, the knee cut pass and the folding pass, being able to work between those three, it really shaped my game at the time and I still use it to this day. I think what really makes a good instructor, and especially for Mark and many others, is whether they give you something that you can take forever. And that you can use forever. And Mark definitely did that. When I was at Elite Team Monterey, I never had any wins. Like I had never won before I, at a competition. I already competed maybe in four comps when I was a white belt. Mm-hmm. And I just didn't do a very good job. I didn't feel like competitor. I would get pretty scared and nervous. I said, Hey Mark, I wanna get ready for a comp. And he's like, all right man, let's get you ready. I was just training at the gym, really early in the morning, and I had to do that because. I was actually commuting from Santa Clara to Monterey every day, hour and a half each way. So I could go to the Defense Language Institute where I worked as a professor. So I would wake up at 4:30 AM drive train with those guys, and, doing that pretty much as possible to get ready for this competition. We got get to the competition. it was here in San Jose. Mark, there's coaching me. And my first match, I jump in, and he's just screaming at me. Stay on top. I try my sumi gaeshi. It doesn't work. I end up on top, but now I was already like so gassed. but, you know, working through, the ex pass, the folding pass, the knee cut pass, I was able to get some points. I did one on points, but, I'll just never forget that feeling of getting my hand raised up for the first time, really put a fire in me. I just lifts something up inside me that I want to keep doing this. I wanna keep competing and, just improve myself and challenge myself. It was just a really amazing experience. I could have done it without, coach Mark. That's awesome. So when did you arrive at Triune? Yeah, triune was around 2022, it happened around the same time as that competition. I had been teaching at the DLI for a long time. Really loved my guys there. I was a team leader, assistant professor. But, I wanted to be closer to my family. I felt like being away for so much in the evening was not good.'Cause I wanted to maximize the time I have my daughter, the time I have my wife. We work at the same school now and at that time I had to find a new gym again. I loved being with, Mark Gutierrez at Elite Team Montre, but, I needed to find a place to train. I did different trials all around the area in, Campbell, in San Jose, in Los Altos, and then I found Triune. Actually, I came in here on my birthday and I had brought in my daughter, the most important thing was getting her to start doing jiu jitsu and, coach Josh was there at the time. And it's funny'cause actually I had met coach Josh before I walked into this gym. I actually met Coach Josh. At a fight craft, Koffee Krew. Nice. In Nogi. And I thought at the time like, Hey, coach Josh, he has a good deep half game, but I just learned recently that he doesn't do deep half that much. Maybe just had a day he wanted to do deep half, but he hates deep half. He doesn't hate it. He just doesn't like being there on the bottom at all. Yeah, he's a smaller guy, so he wants to stay on top all the time. Yeah. I walk into Triune. I also did some reading about Triune before, and I learned that it was a nonprofit. Which I think really resonated with one and want to do as, a practitioner of jiu jitsu. And this is not to say that the gyms who are making profit are doing anything bad. I mean, they're providing a service where people can empower themselves. They become stronger, they become better. But the fact that Triune is doing something without thought of profit to really benefit the community really resonated with me. And not only that, coming to this gym, I just really enjoyed the vibe, the focus on self-defense. Also the focus on competition, on improving ourselves. And all the coaches are just super cool. Like the way that Coach Josh rolls, the way he teaches it just resonated with me. Like I knew that I wanted to learn from this guy. I wanna continue to learn from this guy and under his instruction, I wanna be the best that I can be. Coach Josh is also kind enough, despite just being a newer blue belt, to let me teach, some of the kids classes. So a place where I can teach a place where I can. Be the best competitor where I can, also be a hobbyist. It was the perfect match, and this is why I chose to be a Triune. Also meeting you luckee was, one of the most amazing things. I know we'll go into the BJJ Mixtapes things later, but to meet someone who's able to combine the art with something creative, that's also very inspiring to me. So I want to thank you for, everything that you've done to document and create. A photo history of what we do and also a verbal and video history of what we do. That's so amazing. Thank you. Um, What resonated with me with you is your videography and, being able to display that for us, and document the rolls at the Koffee Krew and at our gym. It's really fun watching yourself and just seeing the reality of how you move and where you can improve. So thank you for that too. Yeah, no problem. BJJ Mixtapes, It's a passion project. it started out actually after that competition in 2022. Coach Mark had recorded all my matches and I went back and looked at them and just seeing how I rolled. And because it was the first time I was really excited, the first time that I actually won one match. I lost it To Scary Gary from, One World jiu jitsu off a knee bar. Oh, it is what it is, man. You know, I shouldn't have been doing de la riva in the first place. It was cool to see myself and I was like, oh, maybe I can put this in I movie and start editing it. And then I did some highlights. I did some parts where I was like, okay, yeah, they mounted me, but I got out of the mount. And that was really like, I guess the Original unofficial mixtape of just me, seeing myself move. Then, because I was leaving Elite Team Monterey at the time, I was like, man, this is sad. I don't wanna leave this gym. I want to have something and to show my respect for this gym that nurtured me and took care of me. Jose, a brown belt who had just joined the gym, I was like, Hey, it's cool if I record us rolling. And I did that. record us rolling. I go home and edit it. I was like, oh, I wanna put this on Instagram and see how it goes. Because I had this idea mix tape from, my previous comp tape, I was like, okay, BJJ mix tapes. Let's try this out. No one has it. Okay, I'm gonna use it. So I got lucky there. Then I was like, oh, how did put music on this thing? So I had some old MP 3's of Miles Davis. I was like, I'm put Miles Davis on. This is cool. Jazz and Jiu Jitsu together. I put on Instagram. Instagram sent me this notification, Hey, you're violating copyright. We're gonna say take this music off. It's like, what? Right? This is horrible. but at the time I didn't know, you can use the music function as long as it's a minute and 30 seconds tracks from wherever, right? From whomever. And so that's how it really started. And then, because we had another Black Belt Elite team Mr. Martin Thomas, I was like, I want to make a mix tape of these two black belts rolling. I really loved Coach Mark's game. I really loved Coach Martin's game. And so they were rolling. They got into like heel hooks, different, ankle locks. They got into rubber guard. That was the first mix tape of these two black belts rolling in Nogi. That's where it really started. The idea was to document the rolls To give credence to the expression that they have on the mat, their Martial expression. But I also wanted to document practitioners who are not Rorion Gracie, who are not Marcela Garcia, who are not these big names, like the real heroes of jiu jitsu. What I would do is I would record the rolls and then edit them, put music on these videos and also do a blurb about who these people are, how they started, where they're going, why they love jiu jitsu, and what their journey is like. So it's really a historical project for me. That's really important to me. Yeah, it is. What you do with your creativity and, documenting history in our jiu jitsu area, so yeah, for sure. Also resonates with, my identity as a scholar, because, when we're all dead and gone, it's sad to say what's left is the videos, the writings, it's what's left of us. It's never gonna be the same as, you and I sitting here talking together, having a dialogue. I also want to leave something to the next generation so they can see and appreciate it. This is why, for example, I'm doing the, one minute with Coach Josh and others so that these techniques can be transmitted. I heard this from Coach Josh too and others, is that, it's this idea Jiu Jitsu in any martial art, it's not so much about creating something new as much as transmitting what has already been there. You can look at a manual from 1906 and there is a foot lock there. These things and these amazing names that people give, to these moves. I feel like it's just like a marketing thing almost. It's almost some sort of, not a ploy, but yeah, it's just like marketing. These moves have existed long before they created those names. And then at the same time, if you give these names to something, sometimes it takes away from what it was and what it is truly. So for me, Brazilian jiu jitsu being a practitioner, BJJ Mixtapes is about transmitting what's already there. I don't feel like I'm creating anything. People are out here rolling on the mats, they're having their true Martial expression, and I wanna bring that, to the surface. I wanna bring that, to the media. Nice. What do you hope to achieve with BJJ mix tapes? Right now it's a pretty small scale production. I'm basically doing this on my own, but I'm always looking for collaborators. I also want to reach out to the community to those who want their own roll tapes or comp tapes. So I did have an opportunity to go to the IBJJF and make a comp tape of, some of my BJJ heroes in the local community. So I'd love to do that more in official capacity if possible, to really showcase. everyone's Martial expression and showcase who they are. Another thing I'd like to do with, with BJJ mix tapes is to create individual roll tapes, because it doesn't matter if you're a white belt or a black belt or in between, there's something really unique about your journey and I want to tap into what's specific and what's interesting about your journey and what's meaningful to you. I don't know about monetizing it, because I want it to be something pure. I want to continue to make sure that I power it with passion, power with authenticity. Okay. Sounds good. Let's start closing it out with a little bit of background on your wife and your daughter, Riley. I coach Riley She's pretty awesome kid. Yeah. Good kid. Yeah. I love my wife and my daughter to death. I think for me, doing jiu jitsu helps me be a better husband, helps me be a better dad. with my wife. I met her in Taiwan in 2011, and the way we met is not how we expect. It wasn't at some social gathering or wasn't a friend of a friend, anything like that. Basically, both of us had this connection to Chinese language and literature, and at that time, Lisa, she was looking for a language exchange to improve her English, Back then there weren't any outlets where you post things like that, especially in Taiwan. But she did post something on the bulletin board at the language school I was at, basically looking for a language exchange partner. What really struck me about this posting was that she had put pictures of Snoopy on there. I was like, okay, this person seems cool. They like s Snoopy. I mean, why not? Right? So, you know, we had this connection to this dog and I was like, okay. I take the little slip of paper and I email her. Yeah, I didn't know back then, but you know, this would be other person that would become the love of my life. And I would never forget her kindness. I think it also speaks to just how Taiwanese people are. I lived at this temple. I would eat all the vegetarian food. We only had like, maybe two meals a day and I dunno, we just connected with food. Lisa, she would. I'll go out of her way driving 20 minutes to like the night market and buy me like these amazing, you know, fried Taiwanese snacks. And she would give these snacks to me through the gate because we had a curfew, so I couldn't even leave if I wanted. Right. And so, that really touched me. It was very heartwarming moment. I knew that this girl was different. She is the greatest partner in my life. I can also say on this podcast, and I think she'll laugh when she hears this, is, I'm not the easiest person to live with, but, she finds a way to deal with it. I'm also not the easiest person to live with because of my obsession with Jiu Jitsu. Back to my daughter, in, preschool and in kindergarten, she got punched in the stomach by boys, several times. It was not just the emotional moment for her, but emotional moment for me as a father. Like, you never wanna see your kid get beat up or get hurt. And so when that happened I decided I'm gonna teach her striking actually, I taught her some boxing, very early on and now recently she's at an age where she can do jiu jitsu and that's where we're at. Like you mentioned before, my daughter, she's shy. She's a bit more reserved in some moments. She likes to win, she has a hard time maybe regulating those emotions. And for me, wanting to learn to teach jiu jitsu, wanting to coach the kids and have an impact, it can be very challenging to walk the fine balance of being a father and a coach at the same time. And I've had a lot of challenges in those areas, but, I think with your help with Coach Josh's help, we found strategies to help her. It does make me a better dad because with jiu jitsu I'm actually really focused on how I can communicate with my daughter. Having her develop her own autonomy and, be able to communicate the needs that she has and to just develop confidence in herself as a person. We do our best to teach but also not teach so much. Because I think as teachers, like we want to instruct and we want to have her set up, for success. However, my wife and I both understand too, that she needs to embrace, struggle and, have positive struggle. That's actually like a really key term right now in social emotional learning is how you teach students positive struggle that you know, even if it's difficult, you can work through it and something positive can come out of it. I was so proud when she got her hand raised at the competition. This is a feeling that I never had until, five years into my jiu jitsu journey. So for her to be able to have that for the first time, I think is very empowering for her. I think the crowd and the loudness and like the intensity of the competition maybe freaked her out a bit, but I'm so confident and very excited to walk her through the journey and help her embrace, just everything that's going on. What we can do with our nerves, how to be a good competitor, because, I only recently learned myself. So this is a journey that my, my daughter and I share how to be a good competitor, how to have good sportsmanship, how to work through nerves. I just restart our judo recently and I'm like, that not the best judo guy. Like, it's super slow. I had to do things a million times to really get it, and that's how it's for jiu jitsu too. But recently, coach Dan, who's our judo instructor here at Triune said. Henry, I can see the gears grinding in your head right now because I had tried to execute a throw and I was like, thinking too much. But, you know, coach Josh has made a very good observation. This is the same expression that my daughter has when she's unsure of herself. So, I dunno, maybe the confidence thing she got it from me, or, you know, maybe it's just something, that we all have to work through. Whether you're a kid and you're an adult, it's just how to develop that confidence, how to be really in touch with that movement. Right. And make it know it so it's in your bones basically. Yeah, absolutely. What do you hope to achieve? With jiu jitsu in the future. Right now, my goals are to just be the best coach that I can be and also be the best competitor that I can be. I'm definitely gonna continue to compete and test myself at every belt level, but also I want to be a really good coach. One of the great things that we do here at Triune is that we have opportunities to coach our students as if they're competing and how to communicate, how to encourage them. Allow them the chance to express themselves on the mat is something of utmost importance. So I consider myself not a creator, but a transmitter in this art. And I want to transmit what I've learned from my coaches to students so that they can continue to transmit this in the future generations. Our bodies are like blades, right? When we are born, they're fresh, they're new, they're just forged from the fire, and they're really sharp. But as we age, our bodies tend to fall apart or, they just slowly deteriorate and we do our best to maintain them. Maybe we have to throw them through the forge again and, go to our, physical therapy, do our weightlifting, moderate our jiu jitsu. And I know that someday my body's gonna break, I'm not gonna be rolling forever. That's okay. Because I know I can teach until the day I die. And that's what I want to do with jiu jitsu. I want to transmit the art. I want to have an impact on the community. I want to teach to make sure that these kids are prepared, that they have confidence, and that they can transmit this art to the next generation. So for me, it's about continuing the legacy. It's about continuing the tradition and to make sure that, this art is not forgotten and to empower people to be the best versions of themselves. Henry, let's start winding down here you're a blue belt in Brazilian juujitsu. So finally I got my blue belt on the podcast. Yeah. Awesome. What advice would you give somebody starting Brazilian jiu jitsu? My first piece of advice for a white belt star in jujitsu is to be open-minded to what's happening because. When you go in and start jujitsu, you may not make sense of what's going on or why you're learning it, and you can definitely talk with your coaches about that. But just being open to the experience and the fact that it's gonna take time to get in touch with your body and understand how these movements work for you and with different partners, especially when you start getting into sparring. The second piece of advice I would give to a starting white belt is to moderate the amount that you're training because it is tough on your body, and if you're not conditioning and taking care of like your joints and so on with different exercises, it can fall apart pretty easily. So I would have a conversation with your coach to see, how much you want to train at what intensity, How intense you should roll. be open with your instructor about, what questions you have and how you want to design and organize your training. I think that's an important piece. The third piece of advice I would give to a white belt is if you have an injury, whether it's major or minor. Definitely take it seriously because it can really prevent you from doing the movements and the things you want in the art, especially if you're constantly trying to nurse a nagging injury, or if it's something more serious that would maybe affect the stability of one part of your body and so on. So definitely take those seriously and don't neglect what your body's trying to tell you. Yeah, that's really good advice. Yeah, things that I wish I would've known going in as a white belt. Yeah. And, I think too is for, white belts. It's sometimes they're in here because they want to have fun or, maybe they want to be a competitor or they're doing it for self-defense. And it's important to reflect on, why you're doing this journey.'cause it's a really long one. Because if you don't understand why you're doing it, it may dissipate. Having those goals in mind and setting up the steps to achieving those goals, I think it's really important. Maybe you want to go in, compete for the first time. Maybe you want to check out open mat other schools. Maybe you want see what Koffee Krew is all about. I keep advertising your Koffee Krew. I just love it so much. Yeah. Also be communicate with people around you, your coaches, your other teammates, because you're all part of a team. They want to help you. So any sort of challenges you have, having that open line of communication I think is just so important. I wish I had been open to my teammates more when I first started. I feel like they had a lot of wisdom I could have gained had I the courage to talk with them and ask them, how they can help me or I can help myself with those specific pieces of the journey. Yeah, absolutely. Henry, you've been an amazing jiu jitsu brother and, I'm glad I'm on this journey with you here at Triune. with coach, Josh. I hope we continue to stay on this journey together. And, I look forward to more of your mix tapes. Thank you for coming on the podcast. I appreciate your time and, what you give to this jiu jitsu community, Thank you. And, we will talk soon. Thank you. Luckee. It was a real pleasure to be on this podcast. I'm always looking forward to being on this journey with you. I'm just very grateful to have this opportunity. I look forward to learning together. Awesome. Thank you. Bye. Thank you.